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Subscribe to RSSFriday the 13th is an unfortunate date to discuss Saturday the 21st.
Spencer Platt / Getty Images
Participants in a movement that is proselytizing that the world will end on May 21, Judgment Day, gather on a street corner, May 13, 2011, in New York City. The Christian based movement, which claims thousands of supporters around the world, was founded by the Oakland, Calif. It is lead by Harold Camping. He is president of Family Stations Inc., a religious broadcasting network that promotes the belief that May 21, 2011 is Judgment Day. Camping claims to have come to this date by a deep and complex study of religious texts. He was wrong on his prior end-of-the-world prediction in 1994.
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Freakin nutjobs...
i agree .. hope they all disappear on may 21
Biblically, THE date is everyday. That seems right to me.
I'm ready for May 22nd... So I can pass out printed fliers of their own information saying "The Bible Guarantees it! May 21st!"
Stupidity should be remembered so it isn't repeated.
And yet we have the atheists saying there is no God. That seems pretty crazy to me. But I'm sure all the disaffected yahoos raised Christian but jettisoned it's constraints since it never really took, when they got older, remember that the Bible does say that no one knows the hour or the day, but only the Father which He has fixed by His authority.
But you know what I think? I think atheists and agnostics are just a bit nervous. What if they're right?
Hey Levi, no, not nervous. Not one little bit.
That's like saying "what if that little kid is right and there really is a santa claus"?
santa claus, god, unicorns, flying spaghetti monster...
@Twiddly,
The FSM has more substance than Levi's make believe myths ;)
If twiddly and S. McIlnay cared to pull their heads out of their fourth point of contact, then maybe they would quit babbling popular culture and really with an honest and open mind, search out the evidence that God exists. But no...I'm sure they can't be bothered with the effort. They'd rather sit in denial. It's easier.
They should search for evidence for God because that is the only acceptable outcome to you?
Perhaps looking at the world around you without requiring a particular outcome would be better.
Levi,
I don't sit in denial. God doesn't exist. You happy now? Your life doesn't equal mine, get over it and move on.
Levi777 I would have to agree with you, My in home pain theripist who is Buddhist askes me about this last Thursday because he is frightened. No we don't know when Jesus is comming back however this has opened doors to talk to people about him.
Buddhist
Levi, if they searched 'til the end of the world (May 21 ?)they would find any evidence that god exists. There isn't any. And before you say..bible...don't. Flying monkeys don't exist either but they were in a book by L. Frank Baum.
...
the day before my birthday what a bummer...
...my birthday too, and my older daughter's as well...we're partying hard on the 21st...just in case.
Just another ploy to attract attention to his name so that he can gain more profit...
SHEEP!
That is one thing he hasn't done in the 40-50 years he has run Family Radio. Take money.
He has been checked on that one. He not only doesn't take a pay check he also doesn't get a housing allowance or car allowance. He has never taken one penny from his ministry.
On the other hand he has volunteered enormous time to the ministry. He is sincere, even if you don't agree with him. I don't know if he is right or not, but I do know the bible points to the end being very near, as does the world around us. This earth is dying, frogs are dying, wild honey bees are extinct, on the East coast the bats are dying, there are dead spots in the ocean, on and on. This planet is dying.
Havent people been selling their homes and stuff because of him? Giving money to the radio station he runs?
BTW he is full of @!$%#. Maybe the end is near, I don't know, but his math makes absolutely no sense. Whoever believes him deserves whatever they might get in this life or the next (since they worship him like a god (he knows something that only god knows, so he must be god) and that is definitely a no-no according to the bible.
JOregon, you are correct in what you say, with the exception that May 21, 2011 is judgment day. It definitely WILL happen according to the Scriptures, as it is shown, by going to . Please consider, just for a moment, that this might be true; Could you afford to be wrong? It's a matter of life and death - eternally.
If it is judgement day it is. If tomorrow is judgement day it is. Who lives and who dies is in God's hands.
I don't question Camping's right to set a date, what I question is how he has changed.
When he predicted 1994 he was very humble. He made it clear he was only a man doing a bible study. He said no one has perfect understanding of the scripture. He said if you studied the bible for 100 life times you would just scratch the surface. He has said different people have different talents and abilities.
Now he says he can't be wrong. If you don't agree with him you are condemned. It is a change in personality. I often think it is because many of his friends and colleagues abandoned him.
I think he was particularly hurt when Dr, Otero left Family Radio.
Would a truly loving god sentence somebody to fire and brimstone "for all eternity" because they didn't profess their undying love for him?
This is just total nonsense.
Most people believe whatever they were brainwashed with as children, which is whatever their parents were brainwashed with, and the idiocy continues into the next generation.
It's time to stop believing in santa claus, people.
Mr Camping believes that those that aren't ruptured will suffer for about 6 months on this earth. The earth will go through all sorts of earthquakes and other calamities. Then the earth will be totally destroyed and everyone that is not saved will simply cease to exist.
At least that is what I think he teaches on this. I have only casually paid attention to him. He bases this on the idea that the word translated hell is also translated grave. If you die you go to the grave and cease to exist.
Don't know if I agree or disagree with him on that. Concerning your understanding about Christianity you are lacking in your understanding. Not your fault, the churches have really twisted this one up. On the chance he is right all you can do is plead for mercy, who knows maybe God will be merciful.
JOregon -
Did you look at Campings math? It makes no sense. He just picked random things he wanted to pick and came up with this date. I can pick random things I want to pick out of the bible, and come up with any date I want. It isnt hard. If I did this and said I couldnt possible be wrong, would you believe me?
Becca-
I have looked at his study, but I didn't completely check every detail. His study is not random at all. Somewhere in the late 90s I did take a fairly thorough look at his "Adam When" study, of the biblical age of the earth. I found it to be very, very good. Much more detailed and thought out than Bishop Ussher's dating system which most Christians use.
Certainly the dating of the flood is better, since we actually have a very good historical record going back 5,000 years a 6,000 year old earth doesn't add up.
When I quit with his new study was when I read that if you didn't come to the same conclusion as him then you were condemned. Some people are good with numbers some good with other traits such a serving (Martha).
I felt he was becoming too wrapped up in proving his date right and had lost his perspective of what the bible teaches.
He chose that a few words= a few numbers. Then he picked other numbers and added or multiplied them together to get a date. What told him to pick those numbers? What told him to multiply the numbers he multiplied? He also says that Jesus died on a particular day, no one knows what die Jesus died... Just like no one knows when he will come back.
I firmly believe that the earth is a few billion years old, and that man did not walk the earth with dinosaurs.
That is ridiculous. Its as bad as saying that the ONLY way to be saved is to believe in Jesus. Kinda sad for the people who never got the chance to know, or kids of Christians who are not old enough to understand.
I don't agree with the direction he went when he started saying if tou didn't see that the dates were right you were condemned. Every cult I have ever heard of has used the line - we are right everyone else is wrong. If you aren't with us you are condemned. It is a total flip from what he has said in the past.
As far as the dates go, it is a much more detailed and thought out study than you seem to understand. There are checks and cross checks. The foundation rests upon his Chronology of time based entirely on the bible. I find his Chronology to be a very good study, have you read it?
You have criticized it, but have you read it?
As far as dating goes, I remember when Mount St. Helens Blew. Some scientists from the University of Washington gathered some volcanic tuft from the eruption - New Rock. Then thay dated the rock and it dated out as billions of years old. They considered it an anomaly and threw the results out. That is how science works.
Interesting note. With his dating system - the bible speaks that at the time of Peleg the earth was divided (continental drift). His dates as the same time the Mayans say was the beginning of the age. If you just watched your continent being split in half it would be the beginning of a new age. Seems logical it was a rapid ripping and now they are slowing down to a drift.
Don't know if man walked with the Dino's or not. What are Croc's and Komodo Dragons? Dinos could have been mostly on another land mass.
Are you speaking of:
Those guys?
Or are you just referring to a "I heard somewhere some guys said something!"
Yeah, like they didn't have an agenda. They aren't even geologists. They used the potassium/argon-40 method. Completely the wrong test. That's like measuring a grain of sand with surveying equipment. The shortest date that the machine they used can accurately measure is about 2 million years. They knew this before they sent the sample. Their results? Right around 2 million years. Perfect for publishing YEC propaganda.
They didn't. Unless you count Birds. As soon as we find ANY advanced mammal skeleton that is older than 65.5 million years evolution will be completely tossed out. Don't hold your breath.
Reptiles. Dinosaurs (including the Bird clade of dinosaurs) are more "advanced" in heart structure and have many skeletal differences. Sometimes "Advanced" comes with a price, such as requiring more calorie intake. Simple sometimes leads to better chances for survival in harsh times.
Dino fossils can be found on every continent, even Antarctica. They existed on the super continent Pangaea before it separated.
As I recall the scientists that did the dating were from the University of Washington. It was also closer to the original eruption time. They threw the results out because it didn't seem right to them that it dated as it did. Very possibly these folks decided to duplicate the study. I live in the area, I paid attention to news stories. Besides their dates were in the billion year range.
Crocodile 200 million years old - supposedly. PBS Link
It is supposed dino's all went extinct that is why the Komodo is not considered a Dinosaur.
During the flood the Dino's would have been spread all over the earth.
After the flood there was one continent.
Interesting that flood evidence is all over the world. Because of this the Asteroid strikes earth theory pops up. Extinction followed. Not sure how evolution could have happened so fast. I guess we really don't have to worry about global warming, we'll evolve. Odd since man hasn't evolved at all, as DNA samples taken from various indigenous people has proven. Laplander, Aborigine, Pygmy all just as different DNA wise as you and me.
Link please...
Yes I have (apparently more than you did) I am also good with math. It made no sense.
I don't think those tests work for soil that is so young...
Crocodiles and Komodo Dragons are not Dinosaurs. (Different build structure) In fact, Crocodiles were around when dinosaurs were around (over 65million years ago) Dinosaurs have been found on every continent so far
(10yrs after) not sure where the scientists were from...
(they were in the 100k range)
Komodo dragon is not a dinosaur because it does not have the same characteristics of a dinosaur. Birds have more in common with dinosaurs than komodo dragons.
??? I am not sure what you are trying to get at here...
Maybe the flood was caused by an asteroid strike? I fully believe that there was a major flood several thousand years ago. When the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs struck, not all dinosaurs survived. Smaller dinosaurs that didnt need to eat as much survived. They are the ones that evolved into birds.
Man has evolved... How do you explain skin color? How do you explain people living in the mountains able to breath perfectly up there when visitors have trouble?
This basically refutes what you just said...
Also, since you are so into religious stuff, can you explain these for me?
Jesus was Jewish, and Christianity is an extension of Judaism. In order to be Christian, you have to believe in Judaism (except for when they believe Jesus wasn't the messiah)
This means that you should have at least read the texts mentioned above, and believe it as readily as you believe the old testament of the bible. Most Jewish people I talk to believe that Genesis is just a story NOT to be taken literally. Not everything in the bible is 100% true. I believe that the story of creation is one of those things.
Originally written in 1974 when Mr. Camping was much more mainstream.
The Link: Adam When
If you had read either study why did you need the link? His end time study revolves around "Adam When". There is no way to understand his study without the chronology. No wonder you thought it was just random things.
You would have thought the UW scientists would have known that before they did the tests.
Different study. It could be that the following study was an attempt to reproduce the first study. Since the results of the first study were considered an anomaly and were thrown out it seems reasonable the Young Earth scientists would jump on that and try to repeat the tests. The original teasts came out in the Billion year range, I remember because it was close to the scientific date of the beginning of earth. I think it was maybe a Billion +/- years less. I wasn't a Christian at the time so I just thought it odd.
You don't know what build structure every Dinosaur had. Nice try. According to science Crocodiles were around 200 million years ago. Did you look at the NOVA/PBS link?
The earth before the flood was a much different world than the one after.
Mark mentioned the Super Continent Pangaea. After the flood God raised the land up. The land that appeared was one solid mass.
If Dino's were on another land mass or two before the flood when they were raised up as one land form it would appear they would have had to of been with man. Just an idea, and probably a bad one. I only threw it out to show there are other possibilities for dino's and men not being together. There actually are some questionable finds and some not as questionable finds showing man was with the dino's.
Evolution should be slow but continual. An asteroid strike that wiped out an entire class of animals. The smaller ones would have had just as big an issue as the larger ones. Because evolution must be slow and continual there should be examples of new and evolving species quite often. Certainly man would have evolved away from each other. They have not, the Human Genome project found that the genetic make up of humans varied much more widely than previously thought but all are still human.
Which skin color is the human one? There are variations in human DNA. When we mate our young have our gene pool to draw from. It doesn't mean there was any evolution. It seems reasonable that those with the better ability to breath in higher altitudes will live healthier and produce more and healthier off spring. Your study reminds me of a study they taught when I was in school.
In England there were numerous light colored moths. When the Coal age kicked in and factories pumped out soot the light colored moths died out to be replace by a darker version - Evolution in action they said.
Not so fast. We reduced the pollution and the light moths came back. What they discovered is there always was and always will be a certain percentage of every hatch that came out dark and a certain percentage light. The birds eat the ones they spot the easiest. There was no evolution. There never has been, that is why animals are going extinct. Global warming is a true concern because nothing will evolve.
What the Rabbis think means nothing. Especially the modern ones. God divorced himself from Israel and Judah. He has no relationship with them anymore. Individual people, that come to Christ he cares about. The Jewish religious leaders mean nothing to God.
Jeremiah 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
By all rights God should have destroyed them. That was the law for the crime of adultery. If he had Jesus would not have been born. It was promised Jesus would come through Abraham. Instead of destroying Israel God divorced himself from them.
So, no you don't have to believe in Judaism to be a Christian. The Christians are the new Jews.
Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
I wrote the link please on the wrong section. I apologize. I wanted a link for the next section (mt st helens)
I wanted a link to this because I am not sure of what study you are referring to. I cant really refute what you are saying for sure because I am not sure exactly what you are referring to. I posted my own knowledge of the study that I know about.
Yes I did. If you are referring to the age I gave for crocodiles, I said "over 65million years ago". I was indicating that they were around before the dinosaurs became extinct.
We do know what build structure some dinosaurs had. They are called bones (fossils). Here are 20 things birds have in common with some dinosaurs (namely avian dinosaurs like the Coelurosauria which is a theropod). (maniraptora is an example of an avian dinosaur)
The smaller ones would not have had as much of a hard time as they would have been able to find food easier. If you weigh a few tons, you need a lot of calories compared to an animal that weighs a couple hundred pounds
What do you think evolution is?
So because god divorced himself from Judah we dont go by anything they believed in? Why do we have the old testament then?
I wish I could get you a link for it. I have looked in the past and find no mention of it. Not surprising since it was from before the WWW recorded everything. They decided that the results were not accurate so they tossed them.
They were around when the dinosaurs went extinct and they were not small.
The small ones would have been in just as much trouble because food would have been short on a large scale.
Adaptability is not evolution. Adaptability is built into the species. Evolution denotes a change in the species that is unique, and leads to becoming a new species.
When Science comes across the unexplainable they sometimes simply throw the results away (as in the Mt. St Helens issue) or they make up something to explain it such as convergent evolution. Then they keep repeating the story until it becomes "fact".
The probability of evolving the camera eye that we humans have is miraculous. It is even more unlikely that it would develop in a totally unrelated species, but there it is in the Octopus and Squid. Very unlikely such a feature would evolve in two such different creatures. But science isn't done yet because - even more unlikely - there it is, a camera eye in the Box Jellyfish.
I get the feeling you believe in God, but for those that do not it is much more likely that there is a God than 3 totally unrelated species all evolved the same eye characteristics.
Evolution is a belief system based on theories derived from facts.
You look at the skeletal structure of dinosaurs and birds and make some conclusions. Not everyone agrees with those.
...it's unlikely that birds descended from any known theropod dinosaurs
"The conclusions add to other evolving evidence that may finally force many paleontologists to reconsider their long-held belief that modern birds are the direct descendants of ancient, meat-eating dinosaurs, OSU researchers say."
Because God divorced himself from Israel what modern Rabbis think means nothing. God put the texts into the bible that he wanted for man. God is in total control.
When you posted:
It means nothing because it is not in the bible.
What God put in the OT has value the ramblings of some old Rabbi does not.
It is no more relevant than the Days and Nights of Brahma. 4.3 billion year cycles. Uh Oh that would mean we are close to the end.
Morons... I'll be laughing at them on the 22nd.
You won't be alone.
But here's a better one. Offer to buy their houses, cars, anything they own at 1/10th price on the 21st. Seriously.
Profit from their insanity.
If you feel bad about it, offer to sell it back to them the next day at the same price plus a written statement swearing a denouncement of the "holy spirit"; it's a mortal sin.
If that's too far for you, then offer to sell it back to them on the next day at the same price plus a written statement swearing to never run around like an idiot telling people the world is going to end and that their current church is run by completely selfish dip@!$%#s who would pimp their own mother for a 2 piece chicken dinner.
Actually Chris that would be a real test of their faith:-). Let them post date their mortgages, titles, etc to the 22nd to a charity like Doctors without borders.
Just another ploy to attract attention to his name so that he can gain more profit...
SHEEP!
"My Sheep hear My Voice" ... Baaa Humbug!
cybl53, I am His "sheep" and He is my "Shepherd", and yes, I hear His voice. You seem to indicate that you don't even believe it's possible, let alone hear His voice, so what do you suppose that means about you? I'll tell you. You are not His sheep. Period.
Besides, he didn't say he heard this from God. He said he got it from a "deep study of the scriptures". Ummmm...yeah, okay. I don't agree with him either, and I really wish he wouldn't hold up the truth to dishonor and disrespect.
Oh, and what if.....as I understand God, if all you look for in those who truly know Him is the error and what you deem ridiculous, God will make sure you never find the truth, but only see error and the ridiculous, even where there is none. And suppose all this "it's here at this time!" and "no, it's over here at this time!" is designed to keep all those who hate God and deny that He exists from ever learning the truth. Then suddenly, He will come, and tribulation will come upon this world when they least expect it.
wait, what about dec, 21, 2012. that day will be a christmas present in waiting to see what will take place.
What's the difference between these guys and all the other fairy tale religious drones? If you can believe the horrid box full of lies that is the Bible is a literal or true record of events, then you're very nearly as nuts as these guys are.
The only difference, and this is my true opinion, is that most Christian people know deep down inside they are only lying to themselves about their belief in God. They almost never act on it in any meaningful way. They say they do and they tell themselves they do because they anything else to them is abnormal behavior.
But at the end of the day, most christians no more pay attention to the bible than they do an old tree stump on the side of the road.
so what do you think happens to people when they pass on. just wondering.
They die. Their body decomposes. Their families cry and wail. End of story.
so where do we go when we die. cause staring at blackness forever would suck.
True it would suck....if you weren't dead.
You won't be staring at anything nitwit, you'll be dead.
When the lights go off at the moment of your death, there is nobody there to see anything. A dead person, is a person who is gone; permanently. They no longer exist. Their brain ceases all function.
It's as if everything that is you is erased. There is no thought, there is no perception, there is no awareness. Dead is the same as gone forever.
Ppl have trouble conceptualizing the END OF AWARENESS - no awareness, no pain, no fear, no YOU. For all of me, I really would dig ANYTHING after I close my eyes for the last time, but the fact that it isn't likely makes taking another life, that is, to END someone elses' AWARENESS, the most horrific thing imaginable. Fortuantely, religion is there to justify murder, torture and a thousand other horrors that otherwise would be unthinkable. Don't worry Manson, God still loves you - drop that bomb on ppl from 50,000 feet, Yahweh said killing ppl in His name is dandy... feh. 'Tis a pity Darwinism never worked well with religious zealots, somehow every generation sees more than enough to offset the self-destruction of the previous.
more than 2 billion Christians in the world and you know what most of them truly believe deep down inside and how most of them regard their sacred scriptures. WOW! You must be one truly amazing person to have that kind of intimate knowledge about a billion people. But seriously, do you really not know how truly stupid you make yourself sound when you say stuff like that?
Within modern physics, they have successfully described (mathematically) up to 11 dimensions. We exist, currently, in four of them. You are a fool to assert, without any doubt, that you may yet exist in the other seven, even when the body passes. To assert, without doubt, is the calling card of a fool.
Chris, your comment about Christians not truly caring about the Bible is sadly quite true. For all of the talk and verbage, when it really comes down to it, Christians care more about themselves than the Bible.
The Church will continue to shrink until it decides to forget the status quo and follow the Biblical pattern of loving people. Christians wonder why non-Christians hate them so much. Non-Christians hate Christians because they are often hypocrites. Being gay is unpardonable but being greedy is okay. Having an abortion is an abomination but working 70 hours each week while never seeing your children is okay. There are many sins in the world. My sin isn't as bad as your sin.
I am actually a card holding minister in a denomination, but I try to be honest with what I see. Chris' comment reflects what I have been noticing for years. My Christian friends tell me I'm negative. I think I'm realistic.
Anyway, the Bible clearly states that no one knows the day when the end of the world will happen. I wish these people would stay home and read their Bibles by themselves.
Chris, it sounds like you are bitter. The Church probably did something to you. I'm sorry.
-Blessings-
Chris, I have a close encounter with a ghost long time ago. Try not to assert you know everything. Nothing in the material world can define self awareness. Go figure.
Nobody knows for sure what happens after death, and anyone who asserts that they know for sure, are delusional, or "faithful believers" but faith does not replace fact. Now, if when we die, all consciousness ceases, then heres what happens after death. Do you remember what it was like before you were born..? No...? Well there ya go - thats what it will be like after death.
But who knows... energy is neither created nor destroyed - it merely changes form. Since the spark of life is energy - then that spark of life that makes us uniquely individuals - is energy - and since energy is neither created or destroyed - theres an aspect of the immortal flowing through us all. The body is a vessel, or perhaps - a conductor. But the real problem is one of consciousness. Can energy have a consciousness? Can the energy that animates us have memory? Well, thats a whole other kettle o' fish alltogether....
The universe is a strange place - so just about anything is possible - but if there is some kind of consciousness or life after death, its likely to not be anything that the world's religions teach - its likely to be much more impressive...
I'm sure you did... After I smoke pot, I usually encounter a ghost too.
We are all atheists, I just believe in one less god than most. If they think about why they don't believe in the others (Allah, Jehova, Shiva, Yawhea, Buddah, etc....) then they should be able to understand why I don't believe in theirs...
You can't convince a mentally ill person that they are mentally ill, only they can...
And remember, you're never alone if you're a schizophrenic...
I love the fact that there's an ad for Fish and Chips below my post, now I'm hungry...LOL
And how are you so sure that you are not the one mentally ill? By your own definition? I have debated with many atheists before. At the end they all have one thing in common. If I don't share their belief then I am wrong, end of story. Once I even pointed out the definition in dictionary, and this atheist said he did not believe in dictionary. lol:)
It is amazing to me the arrogance of man that says that once the body dies, that is all. Who made mankind think we are so lofty and high in intelligence? We can't even understand the total of the human brain, and it's a worldwide multi-year, multi-million dollar project to map the human gene sequence. What, we're so all-knowing because we can even discover a gene, and determine it's relation to another? Woopy-de doo! One car wreck and it all means nothing.
Of course, I'm not talking about the misguided who say that Judgement day is May 21st, 2011 (what if it is?), but rather those who take the opportunity of this story to heap insults upon people of faith.
@Levi: Your assertion is that magic may be real, you believe it is and you contend that it cannot be proven to not exist. My assertion is that magic is NOT real and there has never been a verifiable demonstration of a supernatural event in human history.
There are billions of dead in world history; yet we are to believe they all still exist somewhere in the ether? That we are all immortal spirits capable of conscious thought after death? What kind of a fool do you take me for?
You are welcomed to believe whatever you want but I'd set my hair on fire and throw myself under a train before I stopped encouraging people to re-evaluate any belief they have in magic.
It's OK for children to believe in fantasy tales, but an adult who is incapable of living a good and decent life without them is not much of an adult in my estimation. In which case, I'm forced to humor them. To pretend I don't think they are frightfully misguided and aiding in what I consider one of the worst con-jobs in human history.
It's time for atheists to stop coddling the rest of society. They need to grow up and take responsibility for their role in the real world.
Chris, if you refuse to believe, you will never understand, for you do not seek truth but have made up your mind. You see, the problem is, you hold evidence of God up to scrutiny that is far beyond the normal rules of evidence, and require that God show up in demonstrations of power (in which you would be wiped from the earth) or else you WILL NOT believe. And in that He is not subject to YOU, He has not done so, and therefore you declare Him to be a myth, a fairytale, and false. I have personally be involved in healings, miracles, even creative miracles, all stemming from prayer in the name of Jesus Christ. It doesn't matter that I tell you, for you call me a liar. It must be proven to you, but it will not, because you have already decided.
And what kind of fool do I take you for? No fool, regardless of King David's comments on the subject, but you are lost, and that is not a ha ha thing at all. It is a great sadness.
Watched a documentary about healing by faith. The documentary followed up on those who claimed they were healed by faith alone a couple years later and found they were all dead.
Aw man!!!!! That's gonna ruin the whole weekend. Dammit......just when gas prices were going down too.
Don't we have enought loonies to deal with? And then comes this group of nutjobs to rattle the sensitive with their moronic statements?
This is pretty faulty "journalism." Calling this a "Christian" based group is like calling Jim Jones and his suicidal cult a "Christian" based group. Do your journalists have any knowledge whatsoever of legitimate religion? Come on!
Now you want journalists to decide which religions are "legitimate"? They claim the mantle of Christians--you can make up your own mind easily enough about how legitimate they are.
Matthew 24:36 36But of that day and hour knoweth no
man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
I am a christian and I will never understand why some christians think they know the day or the hour of Christ's return. Have they ever read this verse? How are all these people going to feel on May 22nd.
I would think that if people did figure out the day (picking random numbers out of a bible doesnt work BTW) That god would change the day, so that we will still be surprised...
Amen to that, Daphne. Ironically, I have to agree with Chris-735081's statement as well: "But at the end of the day, most christians no more pay attention to the bible than they do an old tree stump on the side of the road." This is one of the major reasons why we have cults. (Man, there's even an organization called the Center for Bible Engagement that was founded to investigate why so many professing Christians don't read their Bibles. Oy vey.)
Matthew 24:36 is the most obvious Scripture that refutes this May 21st notion, as well as: 1 Thessalonians 5:2, 2 Peter 3:10, Matthew 24:42-44 and 25:13, Mark 13:35, Luke 12:38-39, and Revelation 3:3 and 16:15. Absolutely no one, believers and non-believers alike, will know the exact day and moment Christ will return (not for His Second Coming at Armageddon, but for His church). This is why He refers to the church as a bride, because all of this is modeled on the ancient Jewish wedding, which was designed for the sole purpose of symbolically explaining all this stuff in the first place. After the initial betrothal, the groom goes away to literally prepare a place in his father's household for his bride-to-be. In the meantime, she has to be ready for him at a moment's notice; she has no idea when he will exactly show up again. Eventually, the groom returns with a caravan, often in the middle of the night, and someone in the party shouts ahead that he's coming. He takes the bride away and they sequester themselves in a private chamber for a full 7 days, where they consummate their union. At the end of the week the groom emerges and removes his new wife's veil so that everyone can see her, and they all throw a gigantic party (that lasts for another full week).
That's exactly what Jesus does. He resurrected and left, no one knows exactly when He's returning--in the meantime each person who becomes a believer undergoes a "betrothal" to become wedded to Him for all eternity--and then He'll suddenly appear with a shout to call up His bride for 7 years (symbolically represented by the 7 days in the bridal chamber). Then He'll reveal the bride to the world at His Second Advent when He utterly destroys His enemies at the battle of Armageddon.
Seriously, people, this is not rocket science. There are some obscure passages in the Bible that require extra word study (knowing Hebrew and Greek is a big advantage for that), prayer, and guidance from the Holy Spirit, but the basic foundational stuff is just sitting there for anybody to notice. The Bible was originally addressed to farmers, shepherds, and fishermen far more than theologians. There's so many blatant Scriptures about this topic that it shouldn't even be an issue--but sadly, it is, for the very reason Chris states.
By the way, this goes for everybody: to whoever thinks of the Bible as a "horrid box full of lies," I ask--have you actually sat down and read it cover to cover? God doesn't mind an honest skeptic. Go take a page (no pun intended) from Simon Greenleaf and do your homework before you open your mouth. Prove to yourself, at least, that the Bible is nothing but a fraud before you make snap judgments just for the sake of popular opinion. As one of my favorite Christian authors remarks, if you honestly think that Satan (or atheism) has a better package deal in store for you than the eternal Creator, then by all means roll with it, but you better study your options good and hard first.
I too feel sorry for the people being taken advantage of by this Harold Camping. I hope they won't abandon their faith for something that is the fault of a man and not the fault of God and His Word. Yes, there is a sheeple mentality for many folks that amazingly keeps them supporting a false prophet even when his or her predictions fall flat (Jehovah's Witnesses, I'm looking at you--with concern). May this not be the case on May 22nd.
If anyone's interested, there's a very informative article here that explains and picks apart this cult leader's theory:
Since I see that I can't post links here, just visit Answers in Genesis' website, do a search for Harold Camping, and the first result should be an article titled, "Feedback: Can We Know When Jesus Will Return?"
They have what all warped cult members have: a backup plan. As he did in 1994, on the day after his prediction of the world's end fell flat, he and his dupes will say that his calculator had a defective battery---leading to a calc error. How much? Well, it'll take a couple of years to figure out how low the voltage was, then figure out what the date would be if the calculator had had full power...so it'll turn out to be some time comfortably in the future, like 2017. The less-connected dupes will go into hiding out of fear that they've been 'left behind'...or because they want their neighbors to think they've been 'raptured'. Specialized mental illness, this.
Chris-735081, Not all Christians are nut jobs. Jesus loves you and the Bible gives the history of God's plan to provide for you for life beyond this one. Much of the Bible has been supported by archaeology and extra Biblical historical evidence. Your vitriolic reaction to ALL Christians belies the fact that your are reacting out of fear that the Bible just might be true and that you might be responsible to Someone other than yourself.Â
Just because some of the cities and towns mentioned in the Bible existed does not mean that God is real. It's illogical to make that leap. But if you want to believe, go ahead. I prefer to deal with things that have a basis in reality, however.
I have studied fundie cults from the inside and academically. No matter how much I know, I can't fully wrap my brain around the ignorance and gullibility of these people. They're like large dysfunctional families where everyone has a role either by design or default and they feed off of each others' neuroses. Their disdain for logic and critical thinking is total. I once knew a woman who said she didn't need the media because everything that was happening was already revealed in the Bible. She didn't have a brain in her head and prefaced everything with "George said", George being her husband.
No difference than the extreme political right or left. Complete unthinking wackos.
its ok to believe, the alt is nothingness. The bible is of the past and not the future that is my belief. It was also written by men, some of them mad. The world will end when the nearest star called the sun swells and dies, kinda doubt humans will make it that long.
You gotta admit, it'd be kind of fun if they were right. I'd love to see the news channels scrambling for that first interview, not to mention the YouTube videos of Christ descending from the clouds . . . .
Well according to these group of individuals it is the end of the world so there will be no interviews, news channel coverage, You Tube or anything else.
I cannot even believe I am wasting my time addressing anything related to the church - we all know it is a crock of @#$#!
Horrible thought... but the news or some people could have some fun with this and stage a few "mass vanishings" (people film flash mobs all the time; shouldn't be that difficult) and fake the rapture by posting videos of areas with just piles clothes left and a few freaked out people saying all the other people just vanished.
This sets off stage three where people start filming devout Christians who stated the world was going to end and ask why they weren't taken up in the rapture like every other pious person.
We archive the sets of 3 video clips ("world is going to end", "fake rapture clips", "awkward") and have them quickly referenced the next time someone claims the world is going to end.
Terrible trick... but if it is done, we could cut the number of times people claim the earth will end in the next five years by at least half.
Camping being wrong before didnt stop him... But that would be funny!
People don't take "Christians" seriously because a number of them won't read the Bible. Does -no man knoweth the hour- ring a bell? Further, please be precise as there are differences between the rapture, the end of the age, and armaggedon.
The problem is that most dont know the difference between rapture end and armegeddon and there is a war after the 1000 year war.. please folks read rev. before you spout out some crazy herecy about whats gonna happen. he will come on his own time so live for him until he decides it time to take us all home.
Just a bunch of fools! Them and that damn bible - it is just an out of control cult. I have never seen such ignorance and stupidity in my entire life! So when the 22nd comes - what are these "I don't know what you call them" going to do then - recalculate their date? LOL I can read it now "god send us a quick text and he said because that was his golf day - he had to move it - he is sending an update via email!". LMAO!!
This is absolutely silly! I told you before the church is not good - never has been! It is a place to go and worship a fictitious leader and receive continued brainwashing!
Can't wait to see what the loonies say about the morning of May22nd.
I KNOW!!!! LOL This is going to be good - so get ready for it! I can see it now - "Well we picked up the wrong bible - you know there are so many copies and they are all different - we just had the wrong one!" "We were suppose to pick up the fools version and accidently picked up King somebody or another - our bad!"
You know what is really scary though - is that they really believe it - they really do! I don't understand this at all. But then again - how can you understand anything that goes on in the church - it is nothing more than a cult - and it can't claim to be anything else.
Save some jpgs of their ads, print them and hand them out on the 22nd.
This is the kind of madness that led to the crusades
As an atheist, I relish waking up on May 22nd so I can laugh at these idiots once again. Religion is opiate for the masses. Keep people scared of eternal damnation, keep them ignorant of science and facts and rational free thought, and the flock of sheep will be at your beck and call.
Agreed!
Amen Dean, Amen!
Having said that, I will add that I am a believer in God and a reader of the Bible. It is full of wisdom, insight, and solidly practical advice e.g build your barn before you build your house. It shows the ways to physical and mental health e.g "this is the day the Lord hath made, rejoice and be glad in it." Contentment, living in the moment, joy in being are foundations for health.
I wonder, Chris, if you have ever laid aside your anger and bitterness long enough to read the Bible with an open mind. Perhaps if you could rejoice a bit more and fulminate a bit less you'd be a happier person.
The bible is full of nonsense, death, hatred, and bigotry. Cherry picking what you want to believe is hypocritical at best. I prefer not believing. It's easier and generally more fruitful in terms of mental health.
Why does he/she need the Bible to be happy?
That's one thing people like Chris and myself can't stand about "believers" - the condescending "well if you'd just read it..." or "I'll pray you find the right way" crap we hear as soon as someone finds out we're not believers.
I dont care if people believe or not, but I do think that people should read the bible before they condemn it... If all you know about it is the lies and exaggerated truths, then you dont really know about it do you?
@ Becca,
I've read the bible, and truly tried to with an open mind and heart. What it did to me was make me realize how hypocritical your book really is. One half is nothing short of a nightmare, the other half is a pathetically baited attempt to make up for the first half. I DON'T need something to tell me what is right or wrong. I DON'T need it to make me feel better about myself. It's a crutch.
If you truly need religion to make yourself feel better about your position in the world, that's your loss, not mine nor anyone else's. I broke from those bonds years ago and have never looked back. Religion does nothing more that hold someone back from their potential because all it does is make them feel inferior, and make them feel inferior to nothing but a myth. Once you can get away from that nonsense, things become clear.
"Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons." - Genesis 3:1-7
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." - Romans 1:16-32
You are right where Satan wants you to be: in the grips of irrational, delusional self-worship. Pride is the source of all evil and what ultimately motivates people to reject God. Unbelief is a desire for a lack of accountability. Yes, according to worldly wisdom this sounds like the most revolting insult, but I have to call it for what it is. If you have made up your mind, so be it; we are all given the gift of free will. What we can't have is a free lunch--we can't expect to just do what we please and be "lovers of selves" when we have to answer to Someone Who created an incomprehensibly vast and complex universe that logically and mathematically could not have just popped out of the formless, matter-free void.
At least you have made your mental effort; that's one step further than most make, and I commend you for that. But your decision is still a tragedy that can hardly be conveyed in mere words.
"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?" - Mark 8:36
Its not my book...
Thank you for not criticizing it without actually reading it. I dont care if people criticize it when they actually have read it. My point is that you cant criticize something you know nothing about.
I actually like the bible because of the history. A lot of the stuff described in the bible really happened (though not always in the way the bible claims, which is why I also use other sources for my history)
I dont need religion to make myself feel better. I honestly dont believe in organized religion. It just causes problems. I believe in God in my own way. I dont fully understand what God really is, but I do believe their is something bigger than ourselves.
A lot of stuff in the bible really happened. Not all of it is a myth. God creating the earth in 7days with all the animals that have ever been (no evolution) is a myth. I dont take everything the bible says completely literally. I dont feel inferior (nor do I feel superior)
I'm tired of the billboards crapping up Reno. My sister and I have wondered if the billboards will spontaneously combust on May 22nd. :P
Good, maybe these tards will endure the rapture and leave the rest of us who don't care alone.